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Configuring HughesNetGen4 HT-1100 and AirPort Extreme  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 03:06 pm
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Gwalk
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Good Morning John,
I learned long ago not to count my Networking Chickens before they hatch, however:
This is a screen shot of a portion of my routers internal LAN config page.
I have an Hughes HT1100  Modem, if I enter 192.168.0.1 as an address it will open the Modems SCC.


With the settings shown in the snip for LAN TCP/IP of 192.168.1.1
If I enter that address it will open the login screen leading to the Routers internal configuration pages.
The Router is set up to enable DHCP, handing out address starting  at 192.168.1.2 (note this is +1 up from the Routers own address) and continuing thru 192.168.1.254
Around here I have the following "stuff":
My desktop with 10 internal hard drives, 5 of which have different operating systems that connect to the internet with a Hughes Gen4 HT1100 Modem & a Netgear WNR2000 Router.
That Router has been around awhile, does not do IPv6. Now that just may be the key here because the HT1100 is supposed to and its "DHCP addressing" functions seem to fall into a different range than previous Hughes Modems.
I also have two laptops, Wife's desktop, a HP wireless printer, Nook HD+. Ipad2 and two 3rd gen ipod touchs.
and finally a network storage drive.
They all seem to get along on the network well.
You had mentioned that some of your equipment was old. Perhaps having a non-IPv6 Router handing the initial Modem/Router?DHCP/NAT functions is what is called for.
Look over my DHCP range setting and compare that to what ranges are required by your unspecified devices.


Attached Image (viewed 188 times):

Netgear 2 snip.PNG

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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 03:20 pm
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Gwalk
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John, in my above:
The Modem "stole" 192.168.0.1 for itself and that's fine because that is what it needs.
The LAN TCP/IP setting "assigns" the Router's address is 192.168.1.1 and that is good, the modem and the router are not in conflict as to which addresses they are at.
The RANGE of DHCP address specifies that there is no conflict with the Modem or the Router because it will hand out address starting at 192.168.1.2 and up.
Note that that address range can be adjusted.


 

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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 03:26 pm
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John
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Hi Gwalk,
Wow, thank you for such a quick response and all the time and attention and support.
I see and understand your router settings. But your LAN IP is using the 1.xxx subnet to hand out IP's in that range which is no problem for you. Your configuration works BECAUSE, as I am now learning, the HT-1100 is somehow "hardcoded" only to default to the 192.168.0.1 address and therefor can peacefully co-exist with your 1.xxx subnet.
My situation is the opposite. My existing LAN is on the 0.xxx subnet so there's a conflict with the HT-1100 right of the bat. My only solution is to call HN and see if there's a way to change the HT-1100 default IP address to say 1.1.
I am livid because I had asked HN this exact question time after time and they had assured me life is grand and don't worry about a thing.
I don't want to spend even more hours, day, or weeks reconfiguring my existing LAN just to suit the HT-1100 !!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I'm really upset.
A million thanks for all of your kind, gracious, support.
I'm going to contact HN and may end up screaming at them or canceling.
Again, sorry. It was my own ignorance in the end that was partly to blame. Now I (think) understand. The LAN and the WAN for the HughesNetGen4 system have to be on separate subnets and I don't want to rebuild my world around the new HT-1100 modem.
John  


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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 03:29 pm
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John
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Hi again Gwalk,
I totally get why "your" system works just fine and dandy. It's because the HT-1100 is NOT on your LAN subnet.
In my case, it is, and I DO NOT WANT TO REBUILD MY EXISTING LAN for the sole sake of conforming to the HT-1100.   
John 

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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 04:07 pm
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Gwalk
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John,

I'm truely sorry we couldn't help you.

I understand your reluctance to rebuild your entire network from scratch, it would be a large but doable task.

That address is "burned" into the modem and there really is no way to change it. I'm sure you noticed how little configuration can be done within the modem itself.

As to Hughes sales & support, you are far from the first to report " inaccuracies" from Hughes employees.

If you change your mind or have any other questions or even just want to visit, we will be right here.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 04:18 pm
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John
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Gwalk, and everyone else, you all HAVE been of tremendous help and I greatly appreciate it. My issue is with HN and now I understand the crux of the issue is so simple in that the HT-1100 has and IP address of 192.168.0.1 burned in. I need to change that to anything other than the 0.xxx subnet because that's the subnet of my existing LAN. Case closed. I'll report back.

Again, a million thanks for everyone for your support, your patience, and wisdom in getting this simple concept through my thick head. I guess my misstate was believing HN when they told me I could reconfigure the Modem any way that I wanted to, LOL. Guess the joke is on me. I may cancel my 30-day trial, we'll see.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 11th, 2013 05:08 pm
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John
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Jeeze. After an hour in chat with Tech Support I'm not getting anywhere. They told me to call a "special" Preferred Tech Support number. aaarrrrggghhhh.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 12:07 am
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John
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Spent 8 HOURS on the phone with HN.

Finally came to a "settlement."

Will report more tomorrow.

John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 12:24 am
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Rick.
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John, I am happy to hear you have reached a agreement with HughesNet. I hope it was to your satisfaction. I hope you feel that we did our best to help you. If you have any further question or concerns please let us know. You can speak freely here.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 01:09 am
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John
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Yes, just to confirm, the out-of-the box HT-1100 will handle a max of 5 IP's on it's predetermined subnet.

I will report more tomorrow based on my exchange with HN.

Last edited on Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:13 pm by John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:24 pm
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John
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A special thank you to everyone who's been so graciously supporting my challenges with HughesNet at the Shack.
In the end, after 8 phone calls over a 6 hour period, we all agreed and understood that yes, in fact, the HT-1100 Modem's IP of 192.168.0.1 is burned-in at such a low level at the factory that it can not ever be changed to anything else. If it could have been changed to, for example, 192.168.1.1 then I'd be able to have my cake and eat it too, i.e., set up a conventional router, DCHP server to match my existing LAN which is on the 192.168.0.xxx subnet.
I finally negotiated a compromise with the Account Team at HughesNet (I record all of my phone calls) and received written confirmation to honor my 2 year contract at a reduced rate.
So, I'm sticking with HN and my AE for now as, although it's somewhat cobbled, and although it's and odd and unorthodox configuration, it is still usable and a fair value under the renegotiated terms of my contract. 
Again, I thank each and every one of you for your kindness, patience, wisdom, and support in getting me through all this.
I intend to further experiment with a few settings to see if I can gain any additional benefit beyond what my current configuration is delivering.
All the best,
John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:27 pm
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John
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Thank you Gwalk,
Yes, I found and am aware of the FAQ. It is one of the BEST overall summaries I've come across and would highly recommend it to anyone looking for documentation.
John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:32 pm
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Gwalk
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John,
I seem to be having some "wall of text" formatting issue today when doing a copy & paste.

Edit:

Thanks for the feedback John.

Last edited on Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:36 pm by Gwalk

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:36 pm
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John
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Gwalk,
Not sure what you mean by "wall of text" but I did see your post re JacksonTech, but now it's gone! Maybe I'm looking in the wrong thread.
John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 03:39 pm
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Gwalk
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You are fine John, I removed it because it had lost formatting when I posted it.
All the sentence structure was lost.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 04:31 pm
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John
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Odd.

I just received a post from HN regarding my routing issues, but I'm not sure is this would  matter, or even how to do it. 

Any ideas? 
    The only change you need to make is to the router's LAN IP to get it off 192.168.0.1 

    Then reboot everything.

Last edited on Thu Dec 12th, 2013 04:32 pm by John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 05:21 pm
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Gwalk
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It is the same as I had posted in my last snip above.
The "Router" is being told to "live at" 192.168.1.1 instead of 192.168.0.1 where the Hughes Modem MUST "live at".

Then the router can "route" to the devices in the IP range selected for the routers DHCP range.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 05:35 pm
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John
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So then, according to the screen shot below, I should try to configure the "Connect Using" and instead of DHCP use STATIC and set the static address to what?  Remember, the AE still needs to see the Modem that's at 100.106.64.41 and my LAN still needs to stay on the 192.168.0.xxx subnet. So what IP address should I try to force the router (the AE) to? 


Attached Image (viewed 95 times):

AirportHughes.jpg

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 06:19 pm
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John
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Okay. I give up.

I tried reconfiguring the router [my AE] so the router's IP address would be any of the following and en every case I get a warning that there's a conflict with my WAN or that I'm out of range of my LAN range:

192.168.1.1
192.168.1.2
192.168.0.2

Is it still worth buying a Netgear router to test with? Bottom line, if I get a new Router, the question remains: "Given the fact that the Modem has the 192.168.0.1 IP burned-in permanently, can I run my existing LAN on the same subnet of 192.168.0.xxx?"
I thought the answer to this was an emphatic "no" because the LAN subnet must be different than the Modem subnet, right?

Man, I feel like such an idiot.  Why am I so stuck on having all this my way?

I think I need to give up.

Last edited on Thu Dec 12th, 2013 06:20 pm by John

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 07:57 pm
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John
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OMG!  Found this link during my search for "how to connect a LAN to the same subnet as a Modem."  I'm only posting the link as fodder for amusement and possible elucidation for a network expert who understands the depths to which networking can be taken. Here's the link:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/33700-42-ultimate-modem-router-setup-thread

  

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 10:13 pm
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John
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Okay. I ran a test to reconfigure my LAN to the 1.xxx vs. the 0.xxx (changing the third octet from 0 to 1) on my router DCHP settings and now when I enter 192.168.0.1, for the first time I'm correctly taken directly to the HN Modem SCC page. I tried re-leasing for a new IP on another computer on the switch connected to the AE and it too accepted the new IP it was handed and as well resolved as it's supposed to directly to the SCC page.


Now I have to test if I can do the same with my Verizon DSL Modem and move it the same way from the 0.xxx to the 1.xxx subnet. I would like to maintain the same third octet on BOTH physically separated LANS for on-the-fly A/B switching when one ISP goes down I can just switch to the other and all the IP's will still work.

Lastly, if everything above works, as everyone's been telling me I MUST do (I guess I gave in, finally) I have to inventory all my static IP devices and deal with them one by one to make the third octet change on each one. aaaarrrggghhh. This will be the hard part because some of my devices are legacy and very temperamental.


ONCE AGAIN, I thank each and every one of you for your support. I never would have made it this far, and I still have a long way to go, without you!!!!

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 Posted: Thu Dec 12th, 2013 10:16 pm
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Gwalk
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John,I'm on my Nook right now so pardon typos and auto corrects
Both of us have known since the begining that:
The modem was not configurable.
It did DHCP with a 5 device limit (from JTs FAQ.)
The RUB is that the modem wants to be part router but only has a single port.
That means if you wish to connect more than a single device, you need to connect a router or a router in switch.
The issue we have seen reported is that the hughes modem is dumber than a box of rocks, when renews DHCP leases or you do a modem reboot it forgets who is who.I think this is why you could find the SCC for a day or two and then POOf.
My netgear is a version 1.You can find a Nergear WNR2000 at Best Buy.com for $45
Remember, you can hook routers as switches to routers for subnets on subnets.
Hughesnet modems have always been at 192.168.0.1People have been networking them since day one.
The trick here is that the AAE has its documentation a secret.
More later if I can get to a computer.

The new wnr2000 is version 3

Last edited on Fri Dec 13th, 2013 12:21 am by Gwalk

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 Posted: Fri Dec 13th, 2013 10:33 pm
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John
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I just picked up a Netgear WNR2000 and will start experimenting with it next week.
A million thanks again for your kind support.
John 

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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 02:30 am
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Gwalk
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All right John,

When you get it, yell up.

Don't, don't run any software cd.
As a rule 89.652% of the time it causes more problens than it cures.
More in a day or two. One step at a time.

Hope wherever you are, you have a great weekend.

Here in west Michigan.we are slated for 6" more Snow.

Stay in touch !

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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 01:59 pm
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John
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Hi Gwalk,
Yes, I hear you loud and clear about running any CD!  Particularly since I'm running all Macs vs. PC's, there's no need, worse, I don't want some installation program making any changes behind the scenes! Been there. Learned the hard way.
At some point, maybe today, or maybe not until next week when I have time I'll try running the Netgear router.
Do you know off the top of your head if our Netgear model supports IPv6 in addition to the old IPv4?  I didn't see it in the specs on the box, but I can look it up.  Just thought you might already know.
I'm used to snow. Went to school in New England. Used to love the stuff. Now getting old and not quite as pleased, LOL.  Hang in there.
All the best,
John

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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 03:24 pm
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Gwalk
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Good Morning John.
Look at the label on the Netgear, it should list rev/ver #
Then go here:
http://downloadcenter.netgear.com/
As you type in WNR2000 a dropdown will appear for ver. 1,2,3,4 and select the one appropriate for yours.
That will give you the most up to date info & manual.
Mine is a version 1, no IPv6. Shouldn't be a problem considering the age range you stated for much of your equipment.
Do you have a laptop ?
If so I suggest taking the Netgear to the "work bench" and with no internet connection hardwire the Laptop to the Netgear and open it "internal pages" and familiarize yourself with the layout & features.


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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 03:35 pm
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John
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Gwalk,

Okay.  All good advice.

I know I have IPv6 on my AE, which may be the only reason it "is" working, being that the modem and the LAN are on the same subnet!  There are however issues, and will bench test the new router.

John

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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 04:32 pm
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Gwalk
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John,
I'm looking at the Ver4 manual.
The default address of the Netgear Router is 192.168.1.1
It appears V.4 does indeed handle IPv6 addressing as depicted in the snip from the manual.


Attached Image (viewed 174 times):

Netgear IPv6.PNG

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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 04:47 pm
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John
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Gwalk,

Interesting.  I've only got v3 firmware. Guess I could upgrade later if needed. I assume you did the upgrade. There is no documentation anywhere on the Netgear site if v3 has IPv6 and it may not even matter, we'll see.

Question, I'm definitely not using the "Genie Setup thing" and will do a "manual" setup myself. There is a choice however I see in the documentation within the "manual" setup to choose using the setup "Wizard" or "I want to configure myself."  Do you remember which one of these you did?

John 

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 Posted: Sat Dec 14th, 2013 04:56 pm
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Gwalk
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John,
Look at the VERSION as being Device Generation 1,2,3, or 4.
Firmware version are a recoding of the routers internal BIOS chip.
those are going to be listed like: 1.0.0.30,  1.0.0.40
so you will have to read your label on the bottom of router.


I found this in the back of the V4 manual


Attached Image (viewed 173 times):

Interesting.PNG

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