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Configuring HughesNetGen4 HT-1100 and AirPort Extreme  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Sat Dec 7th, 2013 11:37 pm
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John
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Hi all,
I'm new to the YakShack, as invited by Gwalk900 from posting my issues on the HughesNet help forum. It seems that I'm getting more help from non-Hughes employees regarding "How To Properly Connect and Set Up my new Apple AirPort Extreme" as a router and DHCP server. 
After days of frustration, shear trial and error, I finally got 95% of my issues sorted out, but as a novice it's a really steep learning curve dealing with IP4 and IP6 and the idiocyncricies and details of the HughesNet Modem.
In particular there's a "Router Preference" setting from which you can choose "Default" or "Alternate Router. In my case I am using an "Alternate" Router, i.e., the AirPort, but after spending sooooooo many hours, then days, and now weeks tinkering, I'm afraid to even experiment with this setting until I know I have the time to put it all back if it explodes. 
My two main issues are:
1) Can't see the Modem from the LAN of my AirPort. So have to "loop back" or browse to my Hughes account on-line. Workable, but slow, and frustrating.
2) Although I am getting excellent download speeds, there seems to be some latency in DNS resolution, or latency for some other unknown reason.
Anyway, I did my best to document my settings, which do work fine, other than the above mentioned minor issues and posted them here if it's of help to anyone:
http://www.orijinations.com/Orijinations/HTML/AirPort_HughesNet/
So, I'm open to any suggestions, but my head is really spinning from starring at the screen too many hours so have to take a break.
A million thanks to everyone who's chimed in on my HughesNet threads. You kept me going when I needed a push. I was ready to through in the towel. 
BTW, who is Gwalk900?  
JohnOcean City, NJ





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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 12:06 am
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Melissa
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shy-^ Hi John,

Welcome the yakshak really glad you joined us. I've been
following your case on the community, although I'm not sure
if I've chimed in. My connections been iffy as of late.  Gwalk
doesn't appear to be on at the moment he's been having some
bad weather I imagine it probably took him out for a bit but I'm
he'll be in when he can.

I don't use an airport extreme myself so I can't really help a whole lot,
I have tried the Alt Router setting for my Belkin router before I knew
what it was for. I obviously didn't notice any difference (since its a setting
just for airport extreme). It was a simple select the setting an move
on process. As far as I know didn't change any setting ect on my end.
I do understand your hesitency though your setup is a whole lot more
complex than mine.

ha9^}

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 12:32 am
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William
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Hi John, 

Welcome to the shack... Im a little preoccupied right now, but as soon as I get a moment, I will review your post on the Hughes community and try to get caught up... I dont have an Airport, but I will see if If theres anything or suggestions I can think of to try...

Gwalk is a Hughes customer with alot of computer knowledge.. There are several Hughes Customers here like Me, Gwalk and Melissa.. We have no ties to Hughes customer support, but between us, we have alot of knowledge of Computers, Hughes systems, plan details and many other things, We also have alot of experience in dealing with the Hughes Customer Support Maze or should I say nightmare...

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 01:29 am
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John
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I know I'm crazy, but to be perfectly honest I should fill in yet another variable with witch I must contend. I actually have TWO ISP's. One Verizon DSL, and one HughesNetGen4. The reason being, I'm sick and tired of my DSL connection dropping out from time to time over the years, always at the worst possible time, mainly due to being "hardwired" and we live across the street from the ocean and the salt-air destroys everything in its path. I figured at least with a Satellite connection there won't be any "wires or cables" to corrode or fail, which thus far has proven true with a 100% up-time which I monitor every 60 seconds.
. . . . so, I have an A-B Switch to swap from one ISP to the other "physically" as needed. Miraculously it all works due to careful planning. Yes, there are two Modems, two routers, and two DHCP servers, but they are all physically [and DHCP scooped in different ranges]. . . . I think I may have pushed the limits of my goals as far as possible and should be thankful that BOTH LANS actually work when I have to switch between them with the A-B Switch. I can go into more detail, but wanted to mention this issue as some aspects of the separate LAN settings must agree, while other aspects must cooperate. Right now, for example, I'm on the Satellite ISP, whereas my original post was from my DSL ISP. It's complicated, but not impossible to manage. I've got 95% of what I want so I guess I should be ecstatic. I'm just trying to squeeze out that last tiny bit of latency on the Satellite ISP which could be caused by just about anything. Thank you all for your support.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 03:03 am
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Gwalk
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Hi John,
Gwalk here, rather late in the evening. Will catch up with you in the AM.In the mean time you will find some familiar names here,
Our very own Melissa who has spent so much time and effort to enlighten new Hughes customers,
William, whom I'm sure you have seen many more than one of his helpful and knowledgeable posts,
There is of course our website mentor Ricky who puts up with our rants from time to time.
Missing at the moment but soon to return in Paul Young (sharkyyoung) who has shared many insights
We also have Steven and Tim with us each of who brings their own Hughesnet and life experiences with not only us but many Hughes subsribers.
We all as a group will try to find a solution to your networking issue.
More follow up, but Welcome to our group


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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 02:18 pm
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John
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Thank you Gwalk for the warm welcome. John.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 02:20 pm
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Rick.
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Hello there John. I am a bit late to welcome you as well. There is a fantastic group of HN folks here that are very knowledgable. I am sure they will get you fixed up. Welcome aboard!

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 03:20 pm
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John
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Thank you Rick, as well, for the warm welcome. There seem to be quite a few very knowledgable members in this forum regarding HN. I should stress that I'm fully aware that I am pushing the envelope in terms of reaching my ultimate strategy of having the option to switch back and forth between my two separate LANS as needed. I'll let that issue go until I get my main complaints resolved simply regarding the HN Modem, i.e., 1) Can't see the HN modem from the LAN side of my router (AE), and 2) What can I do if anything to reduce the strange latency I'm experiencing. I should mention that my current setup, irreguardless of the A-B scenario does work very well. I'm just trying to fine tune. John

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 03:46 pm
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John
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My "gut" feeling is that both of my 2 mentioned issues are the result of my (router and DHCP server) Apple AirPort Extreme (AE) using the IP address of 192.168.0.1 with the emphasis on the "1" which from researching various threads keep reading that the HN modem wants to use this address. This address on the AE is grayed out and I can't "easily" change it, to say for example 192.168.0.2. To accomplish this I think I'd have to to a factory reset on the AE and then a total "manual" reconfiguration after having specified the 192.168.0.2 IP address as static. Then the problem becomes by specifying a static IP for the AE, as a result then all the normally "inherited" DNS settings, etc. won't pass from the HN to the AE and I'll lose my Internet connectivity. To make matters worse, changing the AE IP address may affect my current ease in switching between my two LANs so transparently. In other words, I might have to reconfigure my entire DSL LAN just to solve, what are really minor, issues listed in my prior post. I would LOVE to figure out a way to have my cake and eat it to, but at least for the time being everything "works" and I am able to switch at will between LANs transparently with no conflicts. Maybe I want what I can't have and should just be content with my current configuration. You know as well as I do how a "ten minute" tweak can turn into a day-long litany of horror when things explode after making a change.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 04:50 pm
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Gwalk
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Good Afternoon John,

I have been looking over your Network Documentation.

A couple of the issues we will face is the complexity of your network including as it does dual ISPs and the "translation" if you will from "Apple-ezz" to the normal network jargon.

Every "Trip" start with a look at the roadmap.

I see at the start of your "trip" is a Hughes HT1100 Modem, then:

An Apple Airport Extreme A1521 server as the main Router. This Router being named in your documentation as "NewMedia Group Base"

I see connected to that, two other routers:

#1: An Airport Express named "NewMedia Group Express"

What is the generation of this one from this Wikipedia list ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort_Express

I assume this is a wired connection to the main Router (NewMedia Group Base)

What type of devices to you have connected to the network through this device ?

#2: Another AirPort Extreme named "NewMedia Group Extender"

I assume this is also a wired connection to the main Router.

Is this also a 6th generation as defined here ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort_Extreme

What devices both wired and wireless connect to the network through this device ?

I know in previous posts you had mentioned cameras and those can sometimes be "pesky"

I guess John I'm trying to build a picture in my mind of your destination so as to pick the best road to get there.

The first thing that pops up however is the address range of your main Router, its LAN IP showing as 192.168.0.1.

This is wrong as this IS and has to be reserved solely for the Hughes Modem.

The Hughes Modem is pretty much locked down to any user configuration beyond the DEFAULT/ALT router selection, Web Acceleration ON/OFF and MBX reset.

Do you have a Windows based machine you could hook in the the network and open a command prompt and do an ipconfig /all command and compare to this :

 

 

Attached Image (viewed 603 times):

CMD IP config snip.PNG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:01 pm
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Gwalk
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John,

what happens if you open a browser and enter 192.168.0.1 ?

I get the  following:

 

Attached Image (viewed 628 times):

Control Center snip.PNG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:15 pm
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John
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I get "can not find server."  If however I enter the WAN IP for the Modem it resolves the same way your image does. I guess this is called a loop-back. It works, but because the WAN IP changes daily or whatever I have to use the Apple AirPort Utility to discover the new WAN IP each time. A nuisance but at least it works. Same is true for the "Usage Statistic" app.
Entering http://www.systemcontrolcenter.com yields the same result as entering 192.168.0.1, i.e., can't find server.
Also, of note, I need to update the screen shots of my network. I'm currently only using 2 of the 3 AirPorts. One on each LAN.  
I hear what you are saying about the 192.168.0.1 address issue. Let me try to get organized and repost better documentation.
BTW, how can I make a new "paragraph" in my posts on this forum?  It seems they all get stripped.
Thank you again for your most generous support. Let me provide better documentation. Also, I'm all MAC, no PC's.  Had my fill of managing a PC network for about 15 years. Converted in the year 2000 to all Macs, and never looked back.  My LANs are to support a small home business and my ultimate goal from the beginning was to have a fall-back ISP to switch to when my primary ISP goes down.
John

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:29 pm
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Gwalk
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I have been having trouble with formatting and paragraphs myself.

I chalked most of it up to using MS Internet Explorer.

Are you using the "Quick Reply" at the bottom of screen or the "reply" button at the right end of the last post response ?

Try using a double enter.
enter
enter
see if that improves the spacing

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:31 pm
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John
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I've used both the normal and the quick reply with no ability to create a new paragraph by using the return key. Now I will test by hitting it twice as you suggest.

Okay, this this the result of 2 strokes to the return key in the quick reply box.

John

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:33 pm
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John
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Wow, it worked!!!

Thank you Gwalk!

Some time in the next several days I'll post more recent documentation regarding my 2 LANs.

All the best,

John

Ocean City, NJ

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:42 pm
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Gwalk
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Looks good on this end.

First things first, carefully document your current settings so that is we make a change and that change doesn't yield the expected results we will know just what we need to undo.

I read that the Airport Express has no "internal" page and has to be viewed by software. Does this hold true fro the AirPort Extreme as well ?

example:192.168.0.1 will pull up the Modem.

192.168.1.1 will lead to my routers "logon" screen which leads to:

 

Attached Image (viewed 594 times):

Netgear router enter snip.PNG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:44 pm
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Gwalk
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As an experiment, do you have any non apple routers hanging around ?
Something so we wouldn't have to make any Apple/Mac changes

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 05:55 pm
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John
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No extra routers. Even if so, I think this is an AirPort specific issue. To access my AE's I use Apple's AirPort Utility, which gives a fairly robust set of configuration settings.
As opposed to the AE's, my Verizon Westell DSL modem can be accessed if I'm connected to "that" LAN and I browse to 192.168.0.1. From there I can make any changes needed.
So, I'm back to a catch-22 scenario to, as you are correct in stating, have to do extensive documentation of all existing settings, then have the time to work on the project, assuming murphy's law holds true, when everything explodes in my face, LOL.
Thanks a million again for your patience and support.
John  

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 06:40 pm
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Gwalk
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Good deal John, post back when you have everything documented.

In the meantime Ill see what tidbits I can find as well.

It may also be that someone on the Hughes site with Apple experience may pop in but I kind of steered you here because the official Hughes support isn't going to go much past the Modem and its associated "scripting".

On this site we can "go off topic" (non hughes related) and we also have the IM system to pass info back and forth that should remain non-public.

 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 07:05 pm
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John
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Thank you Gwalk.

I don't readily see the IM window or link that you speak of.

Do you mean in addition to posting?


John

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 07:12 pm
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Gwalk
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++Yes John, in addition to posting.

Here is the first of two screenshots:

 

Attached Image (viewed 459 times):

IM snip 1.PNG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 07:14 pm
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Gwalk
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And the page after you click the highlighted area in the first: (I will then send you one ) ( you may have to do a periodic page refresh to see the message "twinkle")

 

Attached Image (viewed 447 times):

IM snip 2.PNG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 07:17 pm
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Gwalk
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or you may do it this way:

from a reply window

 

Attached Image (viewed 444 times):

IM snip 3.PNG

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 07:23 pm
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Gwalk
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There John, I just sent you one, refresh your page and you should see the "1 new message " blinking in the space at top of page. Also a email notice was sent.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 08:32 pm
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dbirdman
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John wrote: My "gut" feeling is that both of my 2 mentioned issues are the result of my (router and DHCP server) Apple AirPort Extreme (AE) using the IP address of 192.168.0.1 with the emphasis on the "1" which from researching various threads keep reading that the HN modem wants to use this address. This address on the AE is grayed out and I can't "easily" change it, to say for example 192.168.0.2. gwalk asked me to stop by and have a look at this. I thought I would start with the above.

If, in fact, the Apple router is using 192.168.0.1 (most use 10.x.x.x IPs) then that is a problem that will have to be corrected. It is also a common problem with D-Link routers, and some Netgear routers. Other companies use different non-conflicting IPs - Linksys for example typically uses 192.168.1.1

BUT - you cannot solve the problem by setting it to 192.168.0.2!!!!!!!

When a router uses a base address of 192.168.0.1 with a mask of 255.255.255.0 then it is using all 256 IPs that start wtih 192.168.0

You must pick a different numbe for the third octet. Anything between 1 and 254 is fine, but not 0 or 255.

You cannot change the IP of the Hughes modem, which is always (and has always been since the first Hughes modem was produced) 192.168.0.1 so you have to change your router IP.

Again, this assumes your router is actually 192.168.0.1

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 08:52 pm
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John
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Interesting, and makes sense about changing the third octet. I hear you loud and clear.
But, not being a CNE (or whatever a network guru is called) I would think that if I change the third octet of the router (my AirPort Extreme) then don't I also have to re-manage all of my legacy static IP's to everything's on the same subnet? 
Some of my LAN devices are soooo old (cameras, printers, etc. on static IP's under the 192.168.0.xxx scheme) I don't know if I could change them, and if I could it would be a huge undertaking.
Ironically I understand most of the fundamentals involved in LAN management, but my knowledge is fragmented as I have no formal training in this. 
In the end, my goals have been 95% satisfied as my two separate LANs can peacefully exist independent of one another, and yet as needed I can switch my core workstation which includes a MBP (soon to be replaced with the new round MP when it's released) and some static IP printers, all running though a common switch.
So, when one ISP goes down, all I have to do is unplug the switch to the RJ-45 plug from the HughesNet router (AirPort Extreme) and plug it into the other DSL LAN switch, then just renew my DHCP lease on the MBP. There are no IP conflicts because I used desecrate IP scopes to prevent any duplicate IP's.
I'm getting the impression I should probably just leave well enough alone. After all, it works, and seems to be solid.
What initially intrigued me was simply a setting I stumbled upon in the HT-1100 management console for "Router Preference" as "Default" or "Alternate" and was reading that the "Alternate" was better for Apple AirPorts.
I'm really torn between spending the rest of my life fiddling with all this, vs. just making do.  I'm afraid of spending day after day reconfiguring things only to discover unanticipated consequences.
I have to really plan all this out and then commit one way or the other to begin testing.
I know what you say is right. I'm just not sure putting it into place will leave me better or worse off than I am now.
A million thanks for your insights and wisdom.
John

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 09:02 pm
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Gwalk
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dbirdman,

Thanks for stopping by. The knowledge you have shared over the years has helped so many.

Please drop in any time !

 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 09:05 pm
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Gwalk
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John,

It may be a big job but I would say it is inventory time !

Lets jot down what you have, lets see the best way it fits together.

Maybe take one of your routers and set it aside as a test bed for individual devices.

 

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 09:06 pm
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dbirdman
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You are correct that everything with a static IP would have to be changed. Been there, done that. It is still the preferred course, and I would recommend that you take a good look at your devices to see if it is possible.

You are "double-natted" which some people find horrific, but personally I don't have a problem - I triple-nat all the time - but the exception is when two nats have the same IP range.

The LAN side of a typical router is a switch. It sees a request coming from 192.168.0.50 to 192.168.0.25 and says "This doesn't need routing, I'll just switch it."

Every one of your packets is having to traverse the router from the LAN side to a WAN port that has an IP in the LAN's range. When that works it is more the exception than the rule. I wouldn't disagree, though, with the "if it works, leave it alone."

You did mention some DNS issues, and I can't say whether that is caused by the IP conflict or not. The DNS server for the router is the modem at 192.168.0.1, which has to be confusing. I know that other IPs may be listed, but there is a proxy client in the modem that passes the DNS request along.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 8th, 2013 09:08 pm
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John
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Hi Gwalk.

I hear you.

I'm just so tired of fighting with all of this for so long I need to take a brake and clear my head. I'll post better documentation that we can pick apart and discuss.

I can not thank everyone enough for their patience and support.

John

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